In some inland post feel the savagery, the utter savagery, had closed round him -- all that mysterious life of the wilderness that stirs in the forest, in the jungles, in the hearts of wild men. There's no initiation either into such mysteries. He has to live in the midst of the incomprehensible, which is detestable. And it has a fascination, too, which goes to work upon him. The fascination of the abomination--you know. Imagine the growing regrets, the longing to escape, the powerless disgust, the surrender, the hate.
Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness, Part 1
What does it mean?
How does it relate to Chapter 12?
What concrete example of this idea can you find in the novel?
To me, this quote is a good way to sum up the main themes and ideas of Lord of the Flies. It is implying that the abomination that occurs in life, that is, humans discovering the evil parts of themselves, is fascinating and also repulsing. This is relevant to the Lord of the Flies because throughout the novel we see the boys slowly descending into savagery and their organized island becoming chaotic. The fact that one by one, each and every boy, with the exception of Ralph, succumbed to the beast inside them and humanity's evil ways. They all crossed over to join Jack in his thirst for power and his obsession with hunting and meat.
RépondreEffacerThis quote also talks about "living in the midst of the incomprehensible". I believe that this best describes Ralph, because though many of the other boys were dismissing the important aspects of life on the island, he attempted to stay focused on getting rescued. He could not understand why Jack was so intent on hunting and killing, and later in the novel he truly did not understand the atrocities that Jack and his group were committing (murders of Simon and Piggy, imprisonment of Samneric). The savagery that had descended upon the group was simply beyond Ralph's comprehension.
Well explained! It also relates to how Golding chose to end his novel. The boys were rescued by a marine who asks them if they've been playing war (p.223). He finds the concept slightly amusing, which is ironic considering his profession. The savagery of the island epitomizes when they break out into this 'war', but it the exact thing that the adults are doing. Savagery is, ironically, an element of our society.
EffacerI love how you explained how "living in the midst of the incomprehensible" represents Ralph. The fact that he was living in total savagery while he continued to be logic (representing civilization), shows us he stayed true to his civilized values. And everyone else being savage was obviously foreign/incomprehensible to him. This comes to show us that people can turn evil in our society but there's always going to be that small few who will never change.
Effacergood point Genevieve! But you said all the boys, except Ralph slowly succumbed to savagery, while in fact, Ralph too was savage at some points, when he tried to throw a spear to the boar, for example. I think the only boy who wasn't savage at all was Piggy because he was the only one completely uninterested in hunting and "war".
EffacerGreat post Geneviève! I agree with you that the quote represents very well most of the ideas conveyed in the lord of the flies. I think in all the events Ralph really was an outcast because of his beliefs and he had a hard time understanding the other boys.
EffacerI really like what you said that this quote was a good way to sum up the main themes and ideas. I also noticed that there was irony in the last chapter. Ironically, fire was supposed to represent civilization and being rescued, but in the last chapter the hunters uses a savage fire to kill Ralph. The ironic part is that the fire who rescued the survivor was not civilized like Ralph had been working to build one since the beginning. A savage fire rescued the boys from savagery.
EffacerI really like your answer Genevieve! It is concrete and inspiring. It is true that the concept of humanity as being evil is very intriguing, and I'd add that this concept is unseen by a lot of people, even though they live to see it acting every day. Proof of this is the captain's astonishment when learning that there were in fact casualties in the war (which he calls and thinks is a game). And this is where I agree with Sarah and others when she/they says/say that it is Ironic.
EffacerI find that this quote represents pretty much the entire novel and what Ralph has to live during his time on the island. It means that when you are surrounded by savagery and evilness you can't run away from it. Even if you try to make things good like Ralph tried to. There is no use if everybody is thinking about themselves and their evil thoughts rather than for the group. Ralph has to live with it and he cannot show whathe truly feels because no one will understand how he feels. In chapter 12, Ralph is alone against everybody, he is the only one to not succumb into Jack's ideas and savagery so he has tries to hide himself and stay safe. Also in the quote it says "The fascination of the abomination--you know. Imagine the growing regrets, the longing to escape, the powerless disgust, the surrender, the hate." if you relate to the book it is obvious to see an allusion on how Ralph feels. He tries to tell himself how the boys have become these evil creatures and especially how they have become so evil to murder of Simon and Piggy. Ralph is confused and just wants to run away from all of this, to his luck is what just happens at the end.
RépondreEffacerReally interesting! It's true the boys were lucky someone came to rescue them, just when it was complete chaos! I wander if the ship hadn't come, would Jack have killed every boy, one by one or would he have calmed down?
EffacerWell said morizio, I like your answer because its true and luckely they were rescued because Ralph was close from dying and what Simon prophecy ,of Ralph making it back alright, wouldnt have been realized
EffacerI like the way you say Ralph can't run away from the evilness. The fact that Ralph is stuck on an Island is very interesting considering he is stuck with growing evilness. Near the end, if he were not rescued by the captain, evilness would have caught up to him, and killed him. (or; metaphorically consumed).
EffacerGood answer Maurizio! One is to wonder can any of the boys ever come back to civilization to carry out a normal life? Personally, I believe the barbaric behavior and terrible sights from the children's stay on the island will always haunt them until their dying breath.
Effacernice answer Maurizio, it would have been interesting seeing how the boys and especially Ralph get back to good after being surrounded by evil or being evil. In the end i saw Ralph being the only good on the island of evil, but which one is man's natural state?
EffacerI like your answer maurizio, I like the way that you make reference as to ask if the kids will ever carry out normal life and return to civilization. Just like Justin, i also believe the children`s savagery will come back to haunt them until their dying days.
EffacerI completely agree with you Maurizio! I like how you mentioned he is the only one who isn't following Jack into savagery, and needs to hide instead. This shows a personal growth for Ralph. Throughout the novel, he felt compelled to follow Jack (for example, in their tribal dance or their hunting games, he wanted to join, he thought it seemed fun.) but know, he fully understands just how bad savagery is, and he no longer wants to participate.
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